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Aircraft Technical Log ?

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Aircraft Technical Log ?

Postby Fanstop » Wed May 05, 2010 4:49 pm

having a look at the current issue of FII, I see a handy list of documents that the IAA say we need on board. one is 'Aircraft Technical Log - Completed'. could someone tell me what that is? all the others are familiar but would like some guidance on this one. maybe I should know or have a different name for it :oops:
thanks in advance.
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Re: Aircraft Technical Log ?

Postby willo » Wed May 05, 2010 8:09 pm

Hi Fanstop

When I was writing the piece, that one also caught my eye, and I meant to follow up with SRD.

I presume its the airframe & engine log books, but I thought that these were maintained on the ground.

AS you have reminded me, I'll take it up with them

Best regards

Willo
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Re: Aircraft Technical Log ?

Postby MOSES » Wed May 05, 2010 9:00 pm

hi lads
just to let you know aircraft log books are not allowed onboard of the aircraft as if aircraft crashed and burned all records would be lost and a technical log is mostly used with schools and is An Aircraft Technical Log is
required to be kept for all registered
aircraft for which a Certificate of
Airworthiness in the Transport Category is
in force.
With reference to aircraft operating
under JAR the aircraft technical log
procedures must comply with operators
requirements as set forth in their
engineering procedures
The Aircraft Technical Log is required to reflect the current status of Defects, Repairs, Replacements,
Adjustments and Inspections whilst the aircraft is in service. These entries form a permanent part of the
aircraft records.
In this document the term “Aircraft Tech Log” is used normally to refer to the first volume only,
although it must be understood that technically all three books are a part of the “Aircraft Technical Log”.
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Re: Aircraft Technical Log ?

Postby Pilot » Wed May 05, 2010 9:27 pm

MOSES wrote:hi lads
just to let you know aircraft log books are not allowed onboard of the aircraft as if aircraft crashed and burned all records would be lost and a technical log is mostly used with schools and is An Aircraft Technical


That was also my understanding too, but I've never looked into it much, so don't have a reference for it. That line in the advert caught my eye too!
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Re: Aircraft Technical Log ?

Postby StrikeCommand » Wed May 05, 2010 11:29 pm

As has already been stated by someone else, the Tech Log is usually associated with a/c on a Public Transport C of A. Usually seen in flying schools where it is sometimes used to record how much oil is added to the engine, defects, authorisation pre-flight, passengers, captain, "A "check completed - tick box , nature of exercise, take off and landing times etc and may be the basis of charging for hours. The most important item is probably the defects one. My understanding was that the tech log was used as an interface between maintenance personnel and the operators. I would have thought the maintenance people would be looking at the Tech Log sheet to see if there were reported defects - also it would be alert everyone that comes along afterwards to the fact that there was a defect real or suspected/imagined. Some tech log sheets I have seen have hours to next Annual, 50 hr check etc and dates due on the top. It could also be used to up date the engine and airframe log books. In the context of a private a/c flown only by its owner, it is probably of limited use, in that the pilot/operator is the owner and responsible for maintenance (or at least for handing it over to an approved maintenance organisation at the appropriate times rather than tinkering with it himself) and therefore there is no-one else to alert or communicate with. Despite that I fill out the Tech Log for my a/c just as if it was in the context of a flying school etc - it is a useful way to keep track of hours for updating the logbooks. But it is definitely kept on the ground!
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Re: Aircraft Technical Log ?

Postby stovepipe » Thu May 06, 2010 12:54 am

Here's how it is in the airline world: the Tech Log travels with the aircraft and, before it departs, the captain signs it and gives the 2nd copy (it's a duplicate carbon copy) to the engineer or dispatch person and this goes into the permanent record. If the a/c crashed and is burnt to a crisp, at least a paper copy of it's authorisation to fly exists on the ground.For small aircraft, pilots tend to jot down what they do in a notebook or so-called "Flight Log" and fill in the proper logbooks later.The rough jottings are known as a "Journey Log". This only gains legal value when the pilot signs it WITH HIS LICENSE NUMBER.Otherwise, it's only the jottings of a stranger.
As an Inspector of homebuilts and Classics, I regularly encounter incomplete logbooks. Anyone who fails to keep his personal or aircraft logbook(s) up to date is leaving himself open to IAA action.
regards
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Re: Aircraft Technical Log ?

Postby MOSES » Thu May 06, 2010 11:53 am

hi
go on to easa website and it type in ecr2042/ 2003 annex 1 ma.306 it deals with what a tech log is for and what it is supposed to be in it.!!
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Re: Aircraft Technical Log ?

Postby willo » Thu May 06, 2010 3:19 pm

Hi all
SRD of the IAA has reverted with the following, which seems to corroborate the opinions above:

The “Aircraft Technical Log” is a carry over from the commercial world although some private aircraft that are maintained by the larger Part 145 or 147 organisations use the maintenance organisations log sheets. Its equivalent in the GA world would be the Flight Log Sheet if the aircraft is operated by a club or a flight school. Basically what the Ops Inspector or Airworthiness Inspector wants to establish is that the aircraft is in a serviceable state to fly and this can best be achieved by checking that the Airworthiness Review Certificate (ARC) is in date. In cases where there is any doubt the Inspector may contact the maintenance provider to confirm the airworthiness state of the aircraft.
At the end of the day if the owner/pilot is carrying the ARC as required there is usually no problem.


Cheers

Willo
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Re: Aircraft Technical Log ?

Postby MHRCRO » Fri May 07, 2010 5:05 am

Since we we are on this wonderful subject

When we fill in Technical Logbooks - how are we supposed to compute the hours

Flight Time? Time in Service? Something else?

Please cite your source for the answer you give

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Re: Aircraft Technical Log ?

Postby stovepipe » Fri May 07, 2010 8:53 am

Hi there,
Flight time is recorded as "chocks away to chocks back".Nothing else will do.Ground running of engines, such as when engineers run engines for maintenance, does not count unless specifically catered for in the logbook or by order of the National Authority.Some people will tell you that you only record from the time the aircraft is starting to roll on it's take-off roll until it touches down again.This is untrue, as the "chocks away to chocks back" timing is designed to allow for time taken to taxy, which varies at every airport and airfield, and to allow for the wear and tear of start-up and the operation of the aircraft's systems.Some operators, who make very frequent turn-arounds, such as parachuting or glider-tugging operators, use a standard taxi time of ten minutes, regardless of actual taxi time, and then add it to the take-off-to-landing-time. This is allowed by the CAA.
refer to the IAA's AN about keeping of logbooks and the SIs.
regards
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Re: Aircraft Technical Log ?

Postby MHRCRO » Sat May 08, 2010 8:56 am

Mr Stovepipe, I would surely agree with you : but much regulatory bureaucracy intervenes :

ICAO Annex 6 2.6.2.1

Thed owner of an Aeroplane...shall ensure that the following records are kept.......

(a) the total time in service (hours, calendar time, cycles,of the aeroplane...


FAA Definitions

Time in service, with respect to maintenance time records, means the time from the moment an aircraft leaves the surface of the earth until it touches it at the next point of landing
FAR 91.417 - Maintenance records.
(2) Records containing the following information:
(i) The total time in service of the airframe, each engine, each propeller, and each rotor


EASA PART M

(h) An owner or operator shall ensure that a system has been established to keep
the following records for the periods specified:

2. the total time in service (hours, calendar time, cycles and landings) of the
aircraft and all service life-limited components, at least 12 months after
the aircraft or component has been permanently withdrawn from service;

IAA Manages to commit hoopsnake! (Airworthiness Order)

Records and Logbooks
22. (1) Subparagraph (a) of paragraph (2) of this Article shall apply in respect of all aircraft registered in the State, and subparagraph (b) of the said paragraph shall apply in respect of public transport aircraft, aerial work aircraft and such aircraft in the private category as may be specified in a direction issued by the Authority, which are registered in the State.
(2) The operator of an aircraft shall keep in respect of that aircraft log books or equivalent records of a form and in a manner approved by the Authority and including the following particulars and such other particulars as may be specified in a direction issued by the Authority or as required by the applicable Joint Aviation Regulations—
(a) in respect of major components of the aircraft or its engines:

(i) the total time in service,
(ii) the total number of operating cycles, where relevant,
(iii) the date, operating time and operating cycles, where relevant, of the
(iv) last inspection,
(v) the date, operating time and operating cycles, where relevant, of the
(vi) last overhaul.
(vii) in respect of equipment of which the operating life is determined by its
(viii) total time or operating cycles in service:

(i) such records of the total time or operating cycles in service as are
(ii) necessary to compute its operating life,
(ii) the date, time in service and operating cycles, where relevant, at last
(iii) overhaul, and
(iv) the date, time in service and operating cycles, where relevant, at last
(v) in spection.

(3) (a) The records required to be kept under subparagraph (a) of paragraph (2) of this
Article shall be preserved by the operator for a period of two years starting at the end of the operating life of the component to which they relate or as otherwise required by the applicable Joint Aviation Regulations.
(b) The records required to be kept under subparagraph (b) of paragraph (2) of this Article shall be preserved by the operator for a period of ninety days starting at the end of the operating life of the equipment to which they relate or as otherwise required by the applicable Joint Aviation Regulations.

(c) The records required to be kept under paragraph (2) of this Article shall be transferred with the aircraft by the owner or the operator of that aircraft to the new owner or operator when the aircraft is permanently transferred to that new owner or operator.

(4) IN THIS ARTICLE “TOTAL TIME IN SERVICE” MEANS THE AGGREGATE OF ALL FLIGHT TIME PROPERLY ATTRIBUTABLE TO THE AIRCRAFT, ITS MAJOR COMPONENTS OR ITS EQUIPMENT, AS THE CASE MAY BE.

Which is why I askwd the question

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Re: Aircraft Technical Log ?

Postby stovepipe » Sat May 08, 2010 2:37 pm

Hi there,
MCRO, seeing as we record in hours/cycles/calendar time, it does get very confusing, especially if a component can be maintained under one or more of the above, ie; flap motors to be replaced or overhauled at 1000 hours or five years or 3000 cycles. Quite simply, it is very confusing and authorities and manufacturers do differ on what constitutes overhaul lives of components.A properly kept logbook is the best solution, either by the owner or a third party.
regards
Stovepipe
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Re: Aircraft Technical Log ?

Postby kitty » Sun May 09, 2010 2:00 am

While i agree there are conflicting issues,
i would also state the within the EU area, "EASA ecr2042/ 2003 annex 1 ma.306" over rules all others.

e.g.
EASA over-rules ICAO regulations if they differ.
Defending Irish GA, thats why i support AOPA Ireland
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Re: Aircraft Technical Log ?

Postby MHRCRO » Sun May 09, 2010 8:19 am

But Kitty

I don't think MA 306 addresses this issue

The basic direction is set out at MA 305 (h) 2 - which follows ICAO and was the one quoted from above

Thus everyone seems to be on the same sheet - except possibly the IAA

This is not just an academic nicety : an operator using Time in Service for Maintenance Records will gain enormous savings over his fellow using Flight Time

With cheer

Maurice
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Re: Aircraft Technical Log ?

Postby jm2833530 » Sun May 09, 2010 6:47 pm

Is it OK to use the Hobbs as engine/airframe/piloting time, with the exception of ground run testing?

I just want to keep it simple!
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